From: stanj@FERRARI.CORP.SGI.COM (Stan Jensen) Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 07:19:53 -0700 To: ultra@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU Subject: More on US 100s It's been so much fun reading the discussion about what makes a tough 100 miler and whether or not the RW difficulty is the right measure, that I thought I'd try to see if the median finishing time would be a better measure of toughness for middle-of-the-packers: Name Hrs. Diff Winner Median BestFin% ST DB Hardrock 48 14.28 32:00:15 42:59:59 74%('93) 1 1 Massanutten Mt. 35 8.99 23:08:22 30:38:11 53%('95) 3 Wasatch Front 36 7.65 21:42:13 30:27:40 76%('94) 2 2 Angeles Crest 33 5.96 18:39:48 29:09:30 72%('94) 3 5 Leadville Trail 30 4.37 17:30:42 27:39:03 49%('94) 5 4 Mohican Trail 30 5.23 20:19:37 27:17:01 66%('95) 8 Superior Trail 34 7.01 21:15:29 27:16:39 76%('93) 6 Western States 30 3.05 16:51:01 26:52:46 66%('94) 4 6 Bloody Basin 24:02:00 26:46:58 83%('94) 10 Arkansas Trav. 30 3.54 17:35:11 25:40:53 79%('95) 7 7 Rocky Raccoon 30 2.13 16:32:02 25:27:13 85%('93) Kettle Morraine 28 18:41:50 25:00:51 66%('96) Umstead 30 5.43 18:47:35 24:28:59 49%('96) Old Dominion 27 2.45 17:40:29 23:36:32 65%('94) 9 Vermont 30 1.84 16:39:08 23:20:08 74%('96) 11 8 Long Island 30 2.81 15:36:26 23:09:34 60%('95) ST: Suzi Thibeault's rankings DB: Dan Baglione's rankings Tue Jul 30 07:02:57 PDT 1996 Date: 10/17/97 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Toughest 100s /?/?/?/? ------------------------------- Message Contents ------------------------------- Steve wrote: > I'm interested to know how the 100's rate in other peoples opinion. Here is my opinion which will, of course, differ from that of others. All of the courses I've run on or have experience with are listed below. Barkley is excluded in the list. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the toughest: Hardrock 10 Wasatch 8.5 Angeles Crest 7.5 Western States 7.0 Leadville 7.0 Mohican 5.0 Arkansas 4.5 Old Dominion 4.0 Umstead 4.0 Vermont 2.0 Rocky Racoon 1.0 I've tried to make this a relative scale, based on my experience with them. Note that the weather likely plays a big role in my perception of a courses' difficulty. Where I've given two courses the same score, I feel the one I've listed first is more difficult. Thus, WS is harder than Leadville. From what I've heard written about other courses I've not run, Halburton Forest would score about a 1.5, Kettle Moraine (I know the course here) a 3.5-4.0, Massanutten a 7.5-8.0, and The Eagle about a 7.0. These are purely speculation on my part -- I hope to fill this in with experience next year or two. Notes on the courses I've run: Hardrock: A class of its own. It deserves the 10.0 ranking due to the altitude, remoteness of the course, ever-changing weather conditions, and the extreme terrain. Clearly a "graduate event", this one should be attempted only by those experienced at the 100-mile distance. Wasatch: An 8.5 due to the altitude, rocks, and narrow trails. This course is unrelenting for the entire 100 miles, although the "easiest" section is the last 6 miles, after climbing "the wall". The 36-hr time limit is generous and allows even a novice accustomed to mountain running a good shot at finishing. Angeles Crest: Lower altitude makes it easier than Wasatch, but the last 25% of the course gives it the 7.5 score. Trails are rocky and narrow. Technical night running makes some sections in the dark very tedious. The relentless downhills are quad-burners. The 33-hr time limit is adequate time for most, and I feel the time cutoffs in the last part of the course are fair. Not a race for a first-timer unaccustomed to the terrain because of the sparcity of aid in the last 25 miles (no crew access). Western States: A 7.0 because of the constant downhill. Easier than AC for a few reasons: 1) More aid station, 2) Wider, less rocky trail, 3) Less significant climbs later in the course. The big thing to remember in my assessment is that I didn't have the temperature extremes that make this course really tough. A decent event even for a first time 100-miler because of the numerous aid stations. Logistics (point-to-point) can be tough, though. Leadville: A 7.0, mainly due to the altitude. The course itself is not that tough. Trails are generally good and clear, and pose fewer rocks than the other Western courses. Remember, almost 50% of this course is on gravel roads. Not a bad choice for runners accustomed to altitude, but aid is far apart and some of the cutoffs are a bit stringent. Mohican: A 5.0 because the ups and downs get tedious after 50 miles. The altitude factor is gone, and the main factors to consider are the heat and humidity of Ohio during June. The last 50K is on roads, which are blister formers. Trails are nice and groomed, aid is adequate, and crew access is plentiful. Careful about the course markings, though. Be sure to keep track of what colored loop you are following. Arkansas: Rutted jeep roads, a section on the Ouchita Trail, and the heat of the area give this a 4.5. The aid stations are some of the best of any 100-miler. A good first one for anyone. Old Dominion: A 4.0 mainly because of the rocky trail sections. Much of this course is on country roads. The course itself is easy and most runners need not worry about the 28-hr time limit; it is generally adequate. I didn't list this as a recommended event for the first-timer because the aid stations offer limited (but adequate) support, I've heard of problems with adeqaute water for the back-of-the-packer (I finished towrd the top), and the 28-hr time limit might be tough for an inexperienced runner. I actually enjoyed the event, even though the roads are hard on the feet. Umstead: A 4.0 in 1997 (course to change in 1998) becuase the 10-mile out-and-backs got monotonous for me. It was all on dirt road, with small rocks that really started to bother my feet. The aid was adequate, but only at each end of the 5-mile stretch. Crew access, therefore, was poor. Either just bring yourself, or have your crew bring some really good reading material. The pluses, however, is that the entry fee $60 is nice (you buy a finisher's award on top of that if you want it) and that the course is user friendly, for the most part. A good first time event with a more than adequate 30-hr time limit. Vermont: There are so many aid stations on this course that your time will be slow if you stop at each one! A 2.0 because I think Rocky Racoon is easier. Mostly on roads with short, interspersed sections of trail. Crew access is great and abundant (don't let them go to all the aid stations, you'll just slow down). The undulating nature of the course makes running the WHOLE WAY possible if you are trained for the distance! The only down side IS the road, but if that doesn't bother you, this one is one of the easiest courses, best aid, adequate time limit, and best beer of the bunch. Rocky Racoon: The Sunmart course never gets more than a 1.0 in my book. Flat and fast with good aid, a 20.2 mile loop is repeated 5 times. Crew access to some of the aid stations. A good first time 100, but the number of runners is low. If you want company, go to Vermont. This is a low-key event, well-run, and at a nice time of year. If you want to get out of the cold (except for the 1996 event), come here. About 50% of the loop is single track and the fact that it is mixed with gravel forest service roads breaks the monotony of the loops. Hope this information helps. Remember that these are just my opinions from the conditions in which I've run the courses. This year, the weather was great at all of the events. Very rarely will that always be the case! Jay Hodde jhodde@ecn.purdue.edu Date: 10/18/97 7:15 PM Subject: Re: Toughest 100s /?/?/?/? ------------------------------- Message Contents ------------------------------- To add to Jay Hodde's 1-10 scale of 100 milers: Superior Trail is about a 5. The course is rugged, with finish times comparable to Leadville, but the 34 hour cutoff is generous and they are lenient on the cutoffs anyway. This year there were 49 starters and 39 finishers, including one who was over the 34 hours but was counted as a finisher anyway, getting the finishers sweatshirt but not the buckle. The trail was very well marked and maintained, with bridges over every water crossing. The aid was good enough that I was able to finish without crew, pacer, or drop bags. Barkley is probably a 25 on the 1-10 scale (10=Hardrock). There is a 0.3% finish rate in spite of a 60 hour cutoff, the longest of any 100. No crews or pacers are allowed, and there is no aid except 2 unmanned water stations plus whatever you put at the start, which you pass after each 20 mile loop. Total climb is 50,000 ft, the most of any 100. (Think of it this way: mile 1 climb 100 floors, mile 2 back down, mile 3 up again, etc.) There are no course markings. You are given a topographical map. On each loop, you must navigate to 9 checkpoints and tear out a page of a book at each one to prove you finished the loop. The course is mostly off trail in the wooded Tennesee mountains, or is on trail that has not been maintained for 50 years. Any trees that once had trail blazes on them have long since died and fallen across the trail. The downhill sections are difficult enough to run in daylight and impossible at night. One section in particular, the Zip Line, descends 1500 feet in a mile through a leaf-covered gully strewn with boulders, jumbles of dead trees, and thorns, and took me an hour, the same as it took to climb the next 1500 feet in one mile. I have been fortunate enough to only hit this section in daylight; Saturday for the first loop and Sunday for the second. Barkley, held in early April, is limited to 25-30 runners by invitation. (You must write an essay, "Why I should be allowed to run the Barkley"). The cutoffs are 13:20 per loop, 40 hours for the 60 mile fun run. The cutoffs for the 100 are 36:00 for 60 miles and 48:00 for 80 miles. The finish rates are typically about 75% for 1 loop, 20% for 2 loops, and 15% for the fun run, of which 5-10% are eligible to continue in the 100, though most decline by this point. The course record is 59:28 set by Mark Williams (UK) in 1995 in exceptionally good weather, the only finisher in the 12 year history of the race. (That was also my best year, missing the 40 mile cutoff at 29:45. A few months later I finished Leadville 4 minutes slower in near-freezing rain). -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@aol.com, www.he.net/~mmahoney/ub/ Date: 10/20/97 8:47 AM Subject: Re: "best" first 100 ------------------------------- Message Contents ------------------------------- > > Gordon K. Chace wrote: > > > If your brain can accept repetition without scenery, consider a > > 24-hour event. Plenty of visits to your drop-bag, no overhead for > > navigation, and numerous chances to study the techniques and pick the > > brains of other ultra-runners both slower and faster than yourself. And John responded: > > I second Gordon's perspective. I have recommended to anyone asking about > 100 mile trail runs that they first try a 24 hour track or road run. I did I don't agree. I have never "finished" a 24-hr run (meaning, I've been on the track at the end of 24-hours). I've run 83 miles on a track, but I find the lack of terrain, the hardness of the surface, and the monotony of the loops too much for me to handle. There is a world of difference in the two events (trail 100 vs. track/road 24-hr). I prefer trails. Now, the 24-hr event *does* have the advantages Gordon describes. But running in the dark on narrow trails with only a backup flashlight with bad batteries can't be simulated on the track. Neither can the remoteness of the aid stations, the awful footing, or the aloneness of the run. I don't care for the 24-hour because I find the trail more enjoyable. I think the trail is an easier run. Maybe I'm just a wimp. Jay Hodde jhodde@ecn.purdue.edu